Lostwatch: Wishing Well :: Tuned In - TIME.com re 5.5 This Place is Death


natego: Ben's reaction when Desmond showed up. Not sure which of the following that was saying:
- I am happy to see Desmond cause I want to kill Penny.
- How the hell did he know who Daniel's mom was?
- She's Daniel's MOM?!?!
- Hooray, I know he's been in contact with Widmore.
- My plan worked perfectly (there's always a chance of that one haha)


I'm int in Christian~Jacob scolding Locke for not turning the wheel himself, for listening to Ben when Ben said he would do it: "When has listening to him gotten you anywhere?"
If Ben was at odds with Christian~Jacob, ie not acting on behalf of the island, then what is he after?
(or maybe he thought he was going what he was supposed to on behalf of Jacob~the island, but was wrong?)

antilles13: I got the sense from this episode that at the end of S4 Ben was still acting to prevent Locke from taking his (rightful) leadership place among the Others. My theory is Ben knew Locke was supposed to move the Island, that this was the final test for Locke, and that he jumped in to prevent that. I think the whole thing about "he who moves the Island can never come back" was a bunch of crap Ben used as a smokescreen.

natego: I don't think Ben tricked Locke into letting him turn the wheel. Just before Ben did so, he was alone, and said "I hope you're happy now Jacob." yes he seemed sincerely to be doing what he tht Jacob wanted. obviously, Jacob was NOT happy. so why would Ben have been tricking Locke? Seems like Ben just thought he would do it for himself, or that what he thought Jacob wanted was wrong.

dave: Locke didn't say "Jacob says I need to move the Island." Locke said, "He wants us to move the island." good point. Ben assumed that Jacob wanted him to move the Island so that Locke could lead the Others. Apparently, Jacob wanted Locke off the Island. (Clarification: I don't think Jacob and Christian are the same person, nor do I think they're a physical embodiment of Smokey)

natego: Yes, my argument is simply that Locke was not tricked into giving up the duties purposefully by Ben. Ben really thought he was supposed to do it himself. so dave is just agreeing, adding supporting evidence: fr what Locke told Ben, Ben would have no reason to think it had to be Locke who turned the wheel.


____p2
dave: The bigger detail I gleaned from Christian's talk was that CJW wanted Locke to leave the Island, not Ben. I'm not totally sure what that implies, but it seems pretty huge to me