Thursday, December 24, 2015

humane and positive critique of gender

ANNOUNCEMENT  {No more threads re:}    "I am a trans woman! Ask me anything" 
We get several posts a week from MtTs asking for hand holding on basic principles of gender critical feminism, and who magnanimously offer...
 reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/

//// this cmmt v reasonable: 
-dotinaline: these are people (of all sorts of bodies and relationships to them) who suffer from a lot of serious traumas from patriarchy, our common enemy.
[They] deserve a baseline level of respect, rather than baiting and ideological purity.
I hate to say it, but I've seen some of the same behavior in this sub from some users that I've seen in trans-activist circles: pedantry, willful misunderstanding, unnecessary obviously gleeful language used with the intention of causing distress.
And then people backed in a corner act out when they sense the hostility. I don't think it's cool that they acted out, but I feel that it's pretty unfair to act like they weren't cornered. We all know how people get defensive, so why put them in that position?
You could be turning away the people who need to hear dissenting conversation and alternative viewpoints the most.  
I also feel that it's pretty obvious that the trans and detransitioned folks who fit this description are already aware of /asktransgender and are finding themselves booted for daring to question anything. Part of the reason many of us are here are because we noticed the very low tolerance in popular trans activism, so I fail to see why we'd seek to build on a similar model.   
I understand that people need a place to vent and to deal with the pain, the frustration, abuse, and gas-lighting that happens to women, by men and transgender people.
But I also feel like gender-critical feminism is the best place to start when it comes to building a humane and positive counter-gender movement, and that may be what people seek when they come here. And that isn't the current direction of some of the conversations here.
 
-flowirin  Post-OP TGERF /:)/ :  it is important to remember that we are all humans, all people. Its not OK to pile in on people, attempt to verbally beat them down. Sure, get on top of the trolls, but the open, thinking people?

// hm now this cntrpnt is ~ not nice, but ok her pnt is not to hv to be nice:
-FemMenace In a House Divided:   Typically, man comes into gender critical conversation, proclaiming to be a woman. [For us to be] stating he is a man is not an attack.   ...   If they want women catering to their anti-science, insulting definitions of womanhood, or a giant hugbox, that's what the rest of the internet is for. //

 --dotonaline: My goal is definitely not "converts" as much as I'd ideally like there to be a visible, viable, and good-spirited critique of gender available for everyone.   I can appreciate the desire for women to have the freedom to say stuff that isn't all cuddles and kisses.
  But it [is sad] that the material consequences ARE young people who see this sort of behavior and are like "yep, everyone was right about radfems all along, they're all mean and shit" and go on to deprive themselves of a meaningful alternative to innate gender. You can't just tell them they're wrong for not tolerating it when they're already gone. In a very real sense, I see that as failing them.
  I think it's important for us to distinguish ourselves as a different way of thinking, so that people don't feel fucking trapped in understanding themselves with the options of 
 "gender is real, and you're wrong and disgusting" 
or
"gender is real, bodies can be wrong*, anything anyone says about themselves is right*, female people who question it are evil for describing their reality." etc.  /good well put * y y / Like, those are the 2 most prevalent and available modes people have to conceive of themselves.
I think there could be immense power and relief for a LOT of people if there was a strong culture of "gender is bullshit" and address the wide variety of patriarchal and mental health reasons things are the way we are. We have no culture to support dysphoric people (and MANY people are dysphoric, and it's only increasing since there's been so much more visibility for trans folk) aside from the popular trans narrative. {Gender is real, innate; you may have been born in the wrong body; you are what you feel like and can/shld thrfr identify as.} The popular trans narrative may have a lot of initial appeal, but it leaves a lot of people stranded with something that is drastic and might not work at all to fix the issues that led them to dysphoria in the first place.   /yes!


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